Ok, so I’ve done a little bit more research since our last chat and I found this quote “The very names of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are never mentioned by him [Justin]—do not occur once in all his writings.”. It also explicitly rejects several books on the grounds that they are recent and written by fringe, “heretical” groups and it specifically singles out works by the Gnostic leader Valentius and by Marcion and his followers. Constantin a eu un impact énorme sur le développement du christianisme. This is feeble reasoning. Ok, but what about what Christian scholar Dr. Dowdwell says? En plus, la « raclette » avec laquelle nous pouvons trouver la Bonnes Nouvelle pur, c’est la Bible. Christianity “started out” as a Jewish sect focused on the idea that Jesus was the Messiah. You just don’t know the material well enough to avoid basic errors like this one. Nous savons que ceci n’était pas le cas, parce que les deux côtés du débat (Arius et Athanase) ont utilisé les mêmes évangiles et épîtres (ceux qui sont dans la Bible maintenant) pour plaider leur cause. Les manuscrits 3. You can also subscribe without commenting. que les 4 évangiles retenus lors du concil de Nicée, et qui sont donc devenus les 4 évangiles canoniques, l’ont été parmi de nombreux autres textes. Malheureusement, à l'exception d'un rouleau d'Esaïe, les manuscrits trouvés près de la Mer Morte ne contiennent que des fragments des livres de l'Ancien Testament. This was particularly the case in times of stress, so the idea that he saw something that he took as a vision and a sign from a particular god before a battle he probably didn't expect to win makes much more sense that the idea that he simply made the whole thing up for cynical purposes. Le schéma suivant démontre comment certains écrits sont conservés. Required fields are marked *. Thanks Tim for some good information. “Again, weren’t the Gospels originally written in the 2nd century? Is it historical, or a Christian legend? Simple – because it’s anti-Christian. Dodwell wrote in 1689, so you aren’t exactly referring to cutting edge scholarship. A manuscript called the Muratorian Canon dates to sometime in the late second century AD and was discovered in a library in Milan in the eighteenth century. Aperçu chronologique Tout comme Dieu avait veillé sur l’authenticité des livres du recueil de la deuxième partie de la Bible, de la même manière il a veillé à leur préservation et à leur transmission, aux copies tirées à partir des originaux. Another way of supporting the theory that at least one of the Gospels was written in the second century is by looking at what it actually says. Ce graphique simplifié nous donne l’exemple d’un document ancien écrit en 500 av. Interestingly, the utterances of ecumenical councils like Nicea, are also called "canon's." …. Required fields are marked *. “For example, a passage in Matthew has Jesus saying, “Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.” This might allude to Matthew being a Roman Catholic Gospel, written after the beginning of the establishment of this hierarchy to uphold the supremacy of the Petrine Church of Rome.”. Tim O’Neill’s forthright blog does a valuable job in keeping us all honest, and reminding us that historical evidence rarely behaves as one might want it to.” – Professor Tim Whitmarsh, A. G. Leventis Professor of Greek Culture at the University of Cambridge, “A brilliantly erudite blog that stands sentinel against the wish-fulfilment and tendentiousness to which atheists, on occasion, can be no less prey than believers” – Tom Holland, best-selling history writer, “Tim O’Neill’s blog is a fantastic place to turn for critical investigation of commonly-held assumptions about religion in the ancient world.” – Professor James F. McGrath, Butler University, “Tim O’Neill is a known liar …. There he began to develop his own Christian theology; one which was quite different to that of his father and of the Christian community in Rome. a hack …. Est-ce vrai? Does is prove that Theodosius sincerely aknowledged the moral authority of the church? I don’t think it’s possible to have politics without ideologues. Nous voyons cela dans la frise chronologique ci-dessous, où les manuscrits de la Bible aujourd’hui datent d’avant Constantin et le Concile de Nicée jusqu’à deux cents ans. Lobegott Friedrich Constantin von Tischendorf, né à Leipzig le 18 janvier 1815 et mort le 17 décembre 1874 dans cette même ville, est considéré — avec Lachmann, Wescott et Hort, Gregory, ou von Soden — comme l'un des plus grands chercheurs de l'histoire du texte du Nouveau Testament au XIXe siècle. Far from accepting his teachings, the council excommunicated him and he left Rome in disgust, returning to Asia Minor. Constantin était l’empereur romain de 306 à 337 après JC . This might complicate matters somewhat. which Christian books and texts could be considered divinely inspired and therefore “Scripture”, which were useful but not scriptural and which were actually “heretical”. And those alleged nefarious purposes include everything from suddenly imposing a divine Jesus on Christianity (according to Dan Brown and his kooky source Holy Blood Holy Grail) to covering up Jesus’ New Age beliefs in reincarnation and Indian mysticism (according to that great scholar, Shirley MacLaine). Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Whether it would have been a good policy or not is beside the point. Alarmed at his success, other Christian leaders began to preach and write vigorously against Marcion’s ideas and it seems that his canon of eleven works inspired anti-Marcionite Christians to begin to define which texts were and were not Scriptural. Il y a beaucoup de fausse information et de rumeurs qui circulent autour de lui . Biblical Traditions in Dialogue (BETL, 249), Leuven, Peeters, 2012, p. 341-355. a pseudo-atheist shill for Christian triumphalism [and] delusionally insane.”, – Dr. Richard Carrier PhD, unemployed blogger, Truth and Fiction in The Da Vinci Code: A Historian Reveals What We Really Know about Jesus, Mary Magdalene, and Constantine, Did Emperor Constantine Create the Canon? Que chacun, en son jugement personnel, soit animé d'une pleine conviction. Lobegott Friedrich Constantin von Tischendorf, né à Lengenfeld le 18 janvier 1815 et mort le 17 décembre 1874 à Leipzig, est considéré — avec Lachmann, Wescott et Hort, Gregory ou Soden — comme l'un des plus grands chercheurs de l'histoire du texte du Nouveau Testament au XIX e siècle . “gain support, stabilise the Empire, harness popularity” Alternatively, they point to an account by Eusebius of Caesarea in his Life of Constantine detailing how the emperor commissioned him to oversee the copying and production of 50 copies of “the sacred Scriptures”. As I have to note regularly, knowing things “for sure” is a luxury we rarely have when it comes to textual analysis and ancient history. Despite this, the idea that the “Bible was created by a vote at the Council of Nicaea” is a pseudo historical myth that has been kicking around for centuries and forms part of several key pieces of pseudo scholarship and pop culture, which reveals the apparently “shocking” but actually rather obvious idea that the Bible was put together by a consensus of human beings. No anti-Christian snippet or meme seems to be able to get by this group without it being posted as factual, without any hint of checking its claims. En fait, le point principal de discussion était la compréhension théologique de la relation entre Jésus et Dieu. Vous avez dit:” si Constantin le grand avait altéré la boble certains manuscrits trouve plus tard le montreraient”. It certainly formed a key plot element in the schlock pseudo historical thriller The Da Vinci Code (2003) and in its film adaptation in 2006. je veux votre adresse electronique puisque je vous avez exigé la mienne. To be clear, I don’t believe Constantine created the Bible, nor that Jesus is a mythical person, nor that it took decades after his death for people to believe in the resurrection. Le Nouveau Testament (en grec : Ἡ Καινὴ Διαθήκñ / Hê Kainề Diathếkê), est l'ensemble des écrits relatifs à la vie de Jésus et à l'enseignement de ses premiers disciples qui ont été reconnus comme « canoniques » par les autorités chrétiennes au terme d'un processus de plusieurs siècles. It seems the status of the Trullan Council or Quinisext Council was debated in the west and that, overall, it was not regarded as a true "Ecumenical Council" and therefore not binding on Christendom overall. ), “It is reported in the Supplement of the Council of Nicaea that the Fathers, when they had no idea how to determine which were the questionable or apocryphal books of the Old and New Testament, piled all of them disorderly on an altar; and the books to be rejected fell to the ground. The full development of the canon took several centuries, though the basics of which gospels were to be included was settled by 200 AD at least. The question whether Constantine actually saw something, deluded himself, lied or (my bet, because I’m lazy) some combination is irrelevant. Fred Baudart 59,049 views. Si ce concile (ou Constantin) avait changé les documents du Nouveau Testament, nous verrions alors ce changement dans les copies qui datent d’avant le Concile de Nicée en les comparant à ceux qui viennent après. “. years with no monarchy. Il convoque ainsi un grand concile, en 325, qui se réunit à … It’s a pity this nice method has fallen into disuse nowadays.)”. L’écriture du nouveau testament a donc commencé du … Combine this with Justin never directly quoting the Gospels and Luke being addressed to Theophilus, Bishop of Antioch, it becomes a little too suspicious to be a coincidence. Eusèbe de Césarée et le canon du Nouveau Testament - Didascale And it continued. Marcion decided that there were actually two Gods – the evil one who had misled the Jews and the good one revealed by Jesus. What again could this astonishing thing be like which people were so anxious to contradict, that in doing so they did not mind contradicting themselves?”. But the ultimate source seems to be an anonymous medieval Byzantine work, the Vetus Synodikon , which gave an account of the major synods and councils of the Church up to around 887 AD. C. Tischendorf distingue quatre scribes différents qui auraient travaillé à ce manuscrit. Whether he also knew gJohn is much debated and this remains uncertain. It took and melted a lot of elements of other faiths and philosophies. This happened later, but the communal nature of religion in the Roman world and the hierarchical nature of political power, patronage and sponsorship of religion made this fairly inevitable once Christianity got a certain momentum in the mid fourth century. Roman religion was a kind of reciprocal bargain – humans gave the gods honour and worship and got protection and favour in return, a little like the relationship between a patron or sponsor and their client or supplicant in many aspects of Roman society. But this request (and another one made to Athanasius of Alexandria around the same time) simply reflects the fact that such an enterprise was so massively expensive that it took Imperial sponsorship to fund it and it seems to be one of many acts of patronage of Christianity by Constantine, not some attempt at establishing a canon of his own. What I mean is that they didn’t just pick them out, but also actively tampered with them. At this stage the "Great Myths" series on this blog may form the basis for its chapters. It also gives some approval to other, more recent works like The Shepherd of Hermas, but says they should not be read in church as Scripture. Constantin n’a pas changé la bible, il a faussé son interprétation. So we can confidently say that your favourite Facebook group are even bigger crackpots. Justin was generally writing for a non-Christian audience, so he generally used the long established technical term for works memorialising the deeds and sayings of great teachers (ἀπομνημονεύματα, memoirs), rather than the purely Christian term for books about the sayings and deeds of Jesus (εὐαγγέλιον, gospel). Lobegott Friedrich Constantin von Tischendorf, né à Lengenfeld le 18 janvier 1815 et mort le 17 décembre 1874 à Leipzig, est considéré — avec Lachmann, Wescott et Hort, Gregory ou Soden — comme l'un des plus grands chercheurs de l'histoire du texte du Nouveau Testament au XIX e siècle . None of the accounts of the Council from the time give so much as a hint about any such event, so Voltaire was clearly working from much later sources. (It is reported in the Supplement of the Council of Nicaea that the Fathers, when they had no idea how to determine which were the questionable or apocryphal books of the Old and New Testament, piled all of them disorderly on an altar; and the books to be rejected fell to the ground. It details that the canonical four gospels – Matthew, Mark, Luke and John – along with most of the other books found in the modern New Testament, as well as a couple which are not (the Wisdom of Solomon and the Apocalypse of Peter) are ‘scriptural’ and authoritative. priests. The irony of this meme urging readers “Don’t just believe me. “And I take it that since you didn’t respond directly to my theory about Luke being written in the 2nd century that you either agree with it or think it’s too stupid to even address?”. “They originally circulated simply as accounts of Jesus’ life and were only given their current attributions later in the second century.”. But deciding that everything is false, or that truth doesn't matter, is not how normal people think (even if some do). Again, weren’t the Gospels originally written in the 2nd century? Not that any of them checked on this whole thing anyway. Je ne plaide pas pour certaines interprétations et applications de la Bible chrétienne (certains étaient bons et certains étaient pas), mais que la Bible elle-même n’a pas changé. Justin Martyr, the most eminent of the early Fathers, wrote about the middle of the second century. As has already been shown above, the canon was well on the way to being established well before this anyway. 3 Pierre Maraval, Constantin le Grand. Je me pose beaucoup de questions lorsque je lis le dernier verset de l’évangile de Jésus Christ selon Jean. But it seems fact checking is not high on the priority list of the so-called rationalists over at “Philosophical Atheism”. Allow me to present why I think the anonymous synoptic Gospels are late 1st to mid 2nd century writings written to support Christianity. Jésus ou le Père Noël: Quelle est la meilleure histoire de Noël? Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. 2. After all, the meme’s bizarre grammar and reference to “Black Ankhwakening” – a crackpot Afrocentrist/Black Revisionist group – should have been a signal that this needed to be checked carefully. The relevance for “philosophical atheism” of the question who actually put together the NT is beyond my understanding.
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